What is Cybercrime & How Do I Protect Myself?

The Benefits of Using a Daily Money Manager

Recorded December 3, 2020

Host: Liz Craven   Guest: Heather Riner

Liz Craven  00:00

This episode of sage aging is brought to you by pulque elder care guide, your guide to all things senior care and resources available in both English and Spanish. You can find the guide and much more at pulque eldercare.com.

Liz Craven  00:24

Welcome to the sage aging podcast. I’m your host Liz Craven. The mission of sage aging is to help you connect to information and resources that will empower you to master the aging and caregiving journey. Weekly, I’ll bring you great conversations with industry professionals and others to shed some light on topics of aging and to empower you to take charge of your journey. So grab a cup of coffee, or maybe a cool glass of lemonade, and sit back and relax as we chat. Are you ready? Hit subscribe now. And let’s get started. According to a 2018 AARP survey, 76% of older adults in America say they want to age in place. While aging in place is what most prefer. There are lots of things that can get in the way of that. One of the most important aspects of maintaining independence is the management of a person’s day to day financial affairs. Though it’s different for each individual. It’s no secret that for some the ability to handle finances diminishes with age, some older adults may forget to pay bills or just become overwhelmed by paperwork. After the death of a spouse who handled all financial affairs, the surviving spouse may find themselves in over their head. Any of these issues can make them vulnerable to scammers. In more severe instances, guardianship may be a good option. But for those who simply need a little help to remain independent, a daily money manager might be better. And that is our topic of discussion today. My guest Heather Reiner is a daily money manager at all about aging, crossing her love of numbers with a passion for people. She’s found a career that allows her to spend her days using our expertise to help older adults realize their dreams of aging in place. Welcome to the show, Heather, and thanks for joining me today. Hi, Liz.

Heather Riner  02:28

Thank you for having me.

Liz Craven  02:30

I’m so glad to have you. It’s the total truth. I’ve never heard of a daily money manager before maybe I’ve been hiding under a rock or something. Is that a new profession?

Heather Riner  02:42

Well, actually, I just joined a year ago, a little over a year ago. And I thought it was a new profession. But actually, I found a daily menu manager to train me and she was she’s been doing it for 30 years. So it has been around. It’s just not well known. A lot of us get put into a bubble of ‘Oh, you must be a bookkeeper or a CPA or a financial advisor.’ But we are none of those things. But we are some of those things. So we like to partner with those professionals. We are more like your right hand or your second set of eyes.

Liz Craven  03:23

Well, I want to go back and talk more about exactly what your profession is. But first, I’d love it. If you just tell me a little bit about your background and how you came around to this career and why you love doing it. Of course.

Heather Riner  03:40

Well, in college, I knew that I loved numbers and working with money. But because my birthday falls on tax day, I knew I didn’t want to go into any taxes.

Liz Craven  03:53

That was a good choice.

Heather Riner  03:56

So I ended up working as a teller for a small local bank. And I was a teller for about two years. And then there’s an opening in the trust department. So I got the position. So I was an assistant and the trust department. Well, I fell in love with it because it dealt with investments. But I was more on the administrative side. And I got to work with clients and be more hands-on but I wasn’t face to face with them. So then I opened with two other partners, Avondale wealth management and downtown Winterhaven. And I’m still co-owner there, but I worked with them for about three and a half years and I just wanted to do something even more hands-on I just wanted to be with my clients whether it was in the living room, or in their community wherever they resided. So then I was speaking with Carrie Harrington, who is a friend of mine, and they were looking to expand on the daily money manager side of all about aging. They are a geriatric care management firm. So they help more with the medical and care side. But they also saw the need for daily money management. Several of our clients have dementia or other needs, and they just needed somebody to help look at their finances and help pay bills. And we just decided to partner together. So I left aven tel and I came over to all about aging a little over a year ago. So I’ve really delved into it and learned a lot. And like I said, I found somebody to train me who’s actually been doing it for 30 years. And she a part of the American Association of daily money managers, I’m also a member, but come to find out, she helped start that membership. And thankfully, Adam, what we call it, Adam allows daily money managers to join an association and get the insurance that they need that specifically designed for them. And you can also be certified, which I’m working on doing, you have to do it for about two years before you can take the test. So of course, I’m going into my second year now. So I’ll be able to take that test this year. And you don’t have to be certified, but it brings another level of professionalism. So I’m looking forward to that this year.

Liz Craven  06:18

Yeah, you’ve got some work in front of you, don’t you? I think ready for that test. That’s such a good thing. I love to hear professionals say that they are seeking additional education and working to be better at what they do. Because you’re right, that doesn’t still another level of confidence in people.

Heather Riner  06:37

Yes.

Liz Craven  06:38

And by the way, the group that you are working with all about aging, they are just amazing. I can’t say enough about them. And as a matter of fact, Barbara was one of my early guests in this podcast, I want to say it was Episode Number eight, I will definitely link it in the show notes as a related episode for my listeners, just so you can go and listen To hear all about aging and what they do. But in general, for those of you who don’t live in the Polk County, Florida area, it talks about care management and life care managers, and what are those? And what do they do. And the daily money manager piece is a part of what they’re offering in many of those organizations as it relates to Life Care Management because the needs of older adults are far-reaching. It’s not just medical, it’s not just someone to check on mom or assist with activities of daily living. There’s also the financial piece and the legal piece. And there are a lot of pieces that have to come together in order for that time of life to be uneventful in the sense of, you know, things going wrong. And so that’s what organizations like all about aging are there for their life care managers, and they can help families to bring about some stability and organization and all of the pieces that have to come together.

Heather Riner  08:07

Yes, definitely.

Liz Craven  08:09

So let’s talk about the mechanics of daily money management. First, let’s talk about how you fit into the picture for a family.

Heather Riner  08:22

I do like to work alongside the family. A lot of times we are hired by the client themselves, but I still like to be transparent. And let the family and the power of attorney know everything that’s going on. But sometimes I can also be hired as a friend to my client, so the family member can hire me. And then I just come in and just act as an assistant to the client, similar to how our care managers work to they do the same thing. So it’s just worked really well. I come in, and sometimes I have clients that live at home. And I also have clients that live in a community. It’s very individualized and unique to whatever situation they’re in. Of course, with 2020 it’s more difficult to work with clients that are in any community but I have been able to work around that. But yeah, it just kind of depends on the situation and where they’re living, and what I can do for my client.

Liz Craven  09:21

So let’s go back. You said something so interesting, that I think others who are listening might it might have been a curiosity for them. You said you can be hired as a friend. And I take that to mean in the eyes of the person who needs the assistance but might be a little bit resistant to having someone come in. A family member might say mom, I hired you an assistant to come and help you with the day to day stuff to make things easier for you, and they’re going to help you and be your secretary or assistant and pay your bills and do those things for you. Is that what you meant by that? Yes, absolutely.

Heather Riner  10:02

Because a lot of times, especially in the financial world, trust goes a long way. So if the family decides to hire me, and then they try to have that conversation with their loved one, if there’s any resistance, they can say, you know, this is who she is, she could just be your assistant. If they can show that they trust me, then it’s easier to get in the door and to help the client and make sure you know, nothing, nothing goes to the wayside. As far as bills, there’s no exploitation or anything like that. It’s just another level of security in their eyes. If the family trusts me,

Liz Craven  10:40

That makes a lot of sense. And by the way, we’ll mention that the Association of daily money managers, you go through background checks every couple of years, and you have all of the bases covered as it relates to security and safety.

Heather Riner  10:56

Yes, absolutely. You are not even allowed to be a member unless you do the background checks every two years.

Liz Craven  11:04

That’s great. Well, that is good, because the exploitation of older adults is rampant. It happens all of the time. And it comes in so many different forms. A few episodes back, and I can’t remember which number it is, but I’ll link this in the show notes as well. I talked to mark bachelor about cybersecurity, and cybersecurity, that’s a little bit misleading, because that makes you think computer. But also under that umbrella are the phone calls that people get saying, This is the electric company. And if you don’t pay this bill, right now, we’re going to turn your power off, or this is the IRS and you owe us $3,000 in back taxes. And if you don’t send us some gift cards right now, then you’re going to go to jail. You know, all those types of things. And so having a daily money manager in place, I would think would assist in keeping people from falling prey to those types of scams.

Heather Riner  12:08

Yes, absolutely. It’s so sad to see because there are several different types of scams. And it comes from all angles. Sometimes it’s a friend or family member that’s distant that comes in and says that they’re going to help do a project and they’ll get money from them. And then they’re never found again, it’s very sad. And my husband, he’s actually a deputy for the sheriff’s office here. And of course, we don’t talk about his cases or anything, but he will let me know if there’s any, you know, new scams that have just come up. You know, he was one of the first ones that told me about the solicitation and exploitation with the COVID Relief Fund. So I was able to notify my clients and say, Hey, do not answer this call, if you answer the call, just hang up.

Liz Craven  12:56

Right, because there are so many. And for somebody who is not necessarily plugged into the Internet, and all of the news and all of the things you know, we learn things online via social media, sometimes a news program or a website that we’re visiting, but their news is typically limited to what they’re going to see on the television. Exactly. And on the television, you don’t see very much talk about the different scams that are happening, they are not on the lists, the email blast list that will give them an update on the current scams. And so it’s hard for people who are not active online to really understand what’s happening out there. And they take it very seriously. And also that generation is respectful of people that they believe are persons of authority, you know, so if the IRS or their doctor or their bank manager or somebody calls them, they’re gonna put faith in what that person is saying because that’s the way that they were brought up.

Heather Riner  14:02

Right, exactly.

Liz Craven  14:04

And I love that you guys can serve in communities as well. So here’s a situation I’m curious about if somebody has an accident of some kind, and this, regardless of age, I would think would be useful. So they have to spend six weeks or so in rehab. Can you do a temporary situation where you manage someone’s finances for them while they are incapacitated and then hand it back over later?

Heather Riner  14:34

Yes, absolutely. Typically, in that sort of situation, I like to coordinate with the power of attorney. Most of my clients do have one in place. If not, that’s typically one of the first things that I’d advise or suggest is to get the documents that you say documents in place. Typically a power of attorney can transfer the account to a checking account that they can manage or I can also have a separate login Just as a trustee could to where I can pay the bills, but of course, I do not like to pay any bills, unless I have the approval by the client themselves, or their power of attorney. So I do like to partner with them so that way I’m, I’m extremely transparent. But yes, I don’t ever let anything slip through the cracks.

Liz Craven  15:19

Very good. So then let’s talk about your typical client, because I would assume that in your position at all about aging, that most of your clients are likely older adults, but do daily money managers serve other age groups and demographics as well? Oh, yes, absolutely.

Heather Riner  15:39

I specialize. And yes, retirees, especially clients with dementia, I’ve had somebody with progressive supranuclear palsy, which is an extremely rare disorder, that affects your body movement, your coordination in all different areas of the brain. So that’s what I specialize in. But there are also daily many money managers out there that help younger professionals, you know, somebody that’s has their own business, but they’re just so busy with life and running the business that they just need somebody in the background, helping make sure payrolls paid and, and bills are being paid. Daily money managers also help nonprofits as well, they can also act as a trustee, fiduciary, appointed by the court. There are several different types of clients that daily money managers can help and assist.

Liz Craven  16:33

Wow, that’s really interesting. This is just also new to me. I mean, we’ve all heard of assistance and hiring people to kind of just take care of some of your loose ends. But I love how directed This is. And I love that you have specific education that’s related to it so that you can do a good job. So let’s go over what happens when somebody retains your services. What’s the first thing that you would do with a family or an individual when they call to consult with you?

Heather Riner  17:06

Typically, the first thing I like to do is just get a gist of their overall financial health. So I like to know, you know, what accounts do they have? How much are in the accounts? What are they paying, from what accounts? And who do they pay? Maybe annually? Because sometimes, you know, if you’re in the moment, and you’ve been with this client for, say, eight months, and then something random pops up, say they might be in a hospital, you need to know what did they pay annually that you may have not spoken about before. So once I get the gist of their overall plan and health, I like to continue to review their statements and their bank accounts for any income and expenses. That way we know are all of the expenses necessary? Is there anything that we can cancel? Or? Or is there something in their life that they do need that they didn’t know about like a service such as LifeLock, we can take a look at that. I like to monitor bills for any irregularities. Sometimes, a company can send a bill and say, Oh, you haven’t paid this for months before? Well, I have a good system that helps me keep track of all of the things that have been paid. For instance, there was a business that sent an invoice I was three months behind. So they said but then I found in my records that yes, we actually paid this and it was by this cheque number and it was deposited on this day. So I was able to contact that company. And they’re like, Oh, you’re right, you’re right. We had a glitch in our system during the summer months. So yes, we will make sure that that gets credited to their account, I like to balance the checkbooks organize and maintain financial records, if they don’t already have one, I will help create a budget. And then a lot of what I do as well as I like to negotiate with creditors. So even if that’s an insurance claim that maybe wasn’t published correctly, I’m able to communicate with the medical office, and then the insurance company to make sure that the codes that were used are correct. So that way, things can be paid as they should have been. I helped set up online banking. And then once a year around tax time, I helped collect the tax documents and deliver those to their professionals. Or if they don’t already have one, I can help coordinate that because I do act as a liaison between attorneys, CPAs, financial advisors, and so forth. And then my biggest, biggest part of daily money management is I do my best to help avoid exploitation. Sometimes they’re already in the throes of it and so I just have to jump in and help whether it’s, you know, a charge that needs to be disputed, or just, I had a client one day he was sitting in his doctor’s office and he was walking he was reading a medical magazine and he found these vitamins that he really wanted to try. And he didn’t tell me. But he already ordered them. Well, once they came in, yeah. And once they came in, they were $120. He didn’t realize that, he said, and he wanted to send them back. So I contacted the company. And they said, Yes, we’ll give him a full refund. Within about 30 days later, he had several charges from several vendors that we had never heard of, and one was similar to LifeLock. And he already had Lifelock. So you know, it didn’t make any sense to me. So I called this company that was similar to LifeLock. And she says, oh, okay, has he ordered anything on TV As Seen On TV ads? Or in medical magazines? That actually, yes, recently, she says, Oh, well, that’s how they got him, then, basically, if they order anything online, or medical magazine ads, he will get, you know, kind of suckered into 30 day free trials. And they word it so suspiciously that, that you don’t even know and you just agree to do it. Well, then after 30 days, all these companies start charging you. So he got himself in a pickle. And so I just jumped right in and helped cancel all of these subscriptions he got put into and get his money back. And you imagine,

Liz Craven  21:24

I mean, there are so many people who don’t have a Heather on their side, you know, and it can happen to anyone of any age, I’ve been there before myself, and you start to see strange things popping up on your credit card statement. And you know, I’m one of those people who is a little bit anal about it, I check my statements a couple of times a month, my daughter is worse than I, she checks hers every single week. But you know, I check them and make sure that every single charge on there is something that I recognize. And it is not uncommon for me to find at least a couple on an annual basis of things that jump in there that shouldn’t be there, and don’t really know how they got there. But somehow they did. You know, older adults are definitely a target for those types of things. Because they don’t pay attention to that they don’t know to look for it. They don’t know what to do. If they see something strange, it’s easier for them to just pay the bill and not worry about it. Right.

Heather Riner  22:29

And, I also see that with my clients, sometimes they will get themselves into a predicament. And they’re so embarrassed that they don’t want to tell me Well, of course, I’m reviewing their account. So I see it. Luckily, you know, this client did tell me that he ordered these vitamins, and then we knew kind of what to expect, as far as you know, how are we going to get the money back. And then when we ran into the 30 day free trials. So luckily, I was able to jump in and help but a lot of times, the elderly, get embarrassed and don’t want to ask for help. And a lot of the clients that I get, if I’m hired by the family, it’s because like you said, even happens to you as well. So just imagine, like you’re having to look out for yourself. But then also you have to look out for your, your mother, your grandmother, your family member, it sometimes with having a full life busy life, it’s hard to also manage somebody else’s finances. So that’s a lot of time why I get called.

Liz Craven  23:30

I totally relate to that. I am not a sandwich generation or any more. But I was you know, my husband and I, we were caregivers for about a 1011 year period for multiple parents all at different times. But it had us in that state of mind for a very long time. And when we began that journey, we had two kids at home still and having to juggle everything was very difficult, especially when it came to having to communicate with insurance companies and make sure that things are being handled the right way and getting qualified for this, that or the other. And it was just amazing how much time that took. And so I can understand, especially for long distance caregivers, how this would offer some peace of mind for them. Yes, for sure.

Heather Riner  24:26

I recently had a client passed away. He was so sweet. And his daughters lived out of town. One was in Georgia and one was in Michigan. So they were so thankful to me. They said if it wasn’t for me, they wouldn’t have known you know who to call to even cancel, you know, like the electric company or I just have a good grasp on the situation to where they were able to ask me for help. Right But I’ve also had somebody recently that was local, who is a caregiver for her and her elderly aunt, and She just needed somebody to come in. Because she recently had her move in with her to go through all of the paperwork, just boxes and boxes and boxes of files and paperwork and mail that her aunt held on to. And she said, I don’t know what’s current, and what can be shredded, you know. So I can even do things like that just to help you organize. And before I left, it actually took two days, she thought it would only take one day, but took two days to go through everything. But by the time I left, she said, Can I hire you for myself?

Liz Craven  25:34

I love it. So I think we could all use a Heather time.

Heather Riner  25:43

Well, I’m here if you need me.

Liz Craven  25:47

So how many hours for a typical client are you spending per week?

Heather Riner  25:52

It ranges, I would say it could range anywhere from just two hours a month to 12 hours a month, it just depends on what is needed.

Liz Craven  26:02

Sure, that makes total sense. And so do most money managers work on a retainer basis or an hourly basis.

Heather Riner  26:10

But currently, I work on an hourly basis. So with my rate is 65 an hour, but  say I am only there for 30 minutes, I don’t charge you for a full hour, I charge you for however long, I’m there helping you. And I can also work remotely too. So it doesn’t mean I have to be there with you. But whatever work I’m working on, I charge you for what I’m doing. Other daily money managers can work on retainer, they can also work on just a flat-rate fee, because they’ve gotten them on a system as I said, but just hear at all about aging. We do like to work on an hourly basis.

Liz Craven  26:44

So I have a couple of questions related to when somebody passes. So the first one, when the spouse of somebody passes, and you’re brought in to kind of bridge the gap and get things in order. Are there certain things that you’re looking for as it relates to maybe Social Security or insurance life insurance policies and things like that?

Heather Riner  27:09

Yes, absolutely. One of the first things I like to do because it does take some time, I just had a recent client that hired me because her social security was a very low amount, but very, very limited. And she was worried that she wouldn’t be able to stay where she’s at, with just that monthly rate. So her husband was getting way more than her. So I like to call social security with the client. And this specific client, we were able to do to change the spousal benefits over into her name. And because of this, because I was able to call security with her and do the correct forms. Her monthly rate increased 16 $100 that month, no remainder. Yes. So that’s the first thing to do. And then, yeah, look at the long term care insurance, make sure they will be covered the surviving spouse, and then make sure that the insurance companies are paying what was supposed to be paid for the deceased spouse, you know, any medical bills that they hadn’t accrued, before passing. And then sometimes say, the husband passed away while the husband was the one paying the bills, and now the surviving spouse has no idea where even to start. So then it’s almost like I’m starting over in a way if I just got hired at that moment, and I wasn’t, you know, previously in place. And then I have to start all over and just help the surviving spouse find out okay, what needs to be paid? What has been paid? What’s current What to do? But yes, definitely calling. So security is usually my number one thing to do, to make sure they’re getting where they can to be able to survive, and continue to live, how they’re living. And

Liz Craven  28:58

I would think that in the situation when you’re going in after the death of a spouse, who has been the person to take care of all of the bills their entire life together? Do you find that it’s hard to find all of the accounts and insurance policies and other things that exist?

Heather Riner  29:19

Yes, sometimes I can reach out to their professionals if they have them a CPA attorneys, they kind of have an idea as well as you know what accounts they’ve had. And sometimes we just kind of need to wait for the mail to come in. So another client, her husband passed away, and he ended up having an account investment account listed, transfer upon death to her to the wife, and she didn’t know about this account, so I was able to contact the company with her. You know, whoever sitting with me, contact the company explains what happened, how the spouse passed away and she’s listed As transfer upon death, and we got that switched over to so now any dividends that come will now come to her name and not the husband’s. So that’s also income that she can that can help her survive.

Liz Craven  30:16

Wow, those are people that are happy to see your face when you show up I bet. Oh, honestly, that money is a big stressor. It is how many times have you heard about money being the cause of the demise of a relationship or causing drama within a family? And as it relates to family? Have you run into any situations where maybe there is some family trying to get their hands on mom or dad’s money? And having you in place prevents that from happening?

Heather Riner  30:50

Oh, yes, actually, family members, yes. But I just had a situation yesterday where I was at my client’s house, and she likes to pay this gentleman who’s a friend. And she just told me yesterday before he came over, and I’m so glad that I was there. So when he came over, but she told me that initially, she would pay him in advance for any projects or home improvement projects. And then he would have to work it off later, well, then she wouldn’t see him for a few days like she wasn’t a priority, he would eventually get it done. But it would take some time. Well, this woman gets dizzy. She has to use a cane or a walker. And, you know, one of the projects was just replacing a lip from the carpet to the hardwood floor. She has, you know, just so she doesn’t trip and it took him days or even a week to come back. So yesterday, this friend came over and he is in the process of replacing her bathtub, switching it from a bathtub to a walk-in shower. That way, she doesn’t have to worry about tripping. So when he came over, he’s like, Can I talk to you in the living room? And she says yes, yes, yes. Well, of course, I can hear. So I’m eavesdropping. I know that’s wrong but it was there to help her and protect her. He was so wrong. So he said, he’s going to go to the store. And he would prefer to have her card, her credit card, and cash just in case. And I said, No, why don’t you pay in advance, as you pay for it, and then give her the receipt. And we can give you a check. And of course, he wasn’t very happy with that. But when he left with, you know, with nothing there, she said, I’m so glad you were here because I would have given him both because he’s such a talk fast talker. And I just said, when he does that to you don’t get overwhelmed and anxious, because that’s his goal. I said, blame me, you can use me and just say, Heather told me no, that I can’t do that, that we will give you a check. or even your attorney, I said you can also use her name because she’s fine with that. So of course, she is very, very thankful. And now I get to see her at least once a week and I’m you know, gonna make sure that he doesn’t take advantage of her.

Liz Craven  33:13

That is so good. I think that is probably one of the most hidden benefits of what you offer. This lady is probably living by herself and doesn’t have somebody they’re looking out for in her best interest. And when somebody like that, and I’ll tell you, we’ve renovated a home, historic home. So we’ve been taken by a few people. It was a project that has taken so many years, I don’t even I’ve lost count. But when contractors come in and tell you what they’re going to do, and this is what they’re going to need, and you write a check, and then you don’t see them anymore. And that’s just unacceptable. And especially when it’s something that could cause a danger to the person living in a home. Yes, you know, so you need to be safe in her home and to be able to have easy mobility and not have to worry about falling and being stuck there with nobody, nobody to help her.

Heather Riner  34:14

Right. And I told her, you know, she has signed on with both my services and care management services. So she told me, I just don’t want to make him mad. That’s another reason that she’s kind of goes along with it. She said because he’s the only one that I can call if I fall in the middle of the night. So no, it’s not. You can call your care manager. You can call me. You can call anybody. We will be here. We’re here local and we work 24 seven, so definitely call us.

Liz Craven  34:45

Doesn’t it make you wonder because a lot of people are relying on people like him in their lives? And it sounds like he although he’s taken advantage of her in the sense that he takes a long time. To complete the project, she’s actually very lucky that he’s one who has actually completed them. Yes, there are many out there who will take the money and run and never show up again. Right. But even still, I’m glad that you were there to help her. And I love that all about aging now has this in their offerings of services because it’s really important. And I really appreciate that you’re here to explain all of this to us?

Heather Riner  35:26

Of course, no problem. I enjoy being here.

Liz Craven  35:31

So do you have any sage advice for those who are thinking about mom or dad who is struggling a little bit to live independently? Or maybe someone who themselves is thinking I might need a little assistance? What would you say to them?

Heather Riner  35:48

I would just say, we all think that we can do it alone. But sometimes it’s okay to just ask for help. And you don’t have to go it alone.

Liz Craven  35:58

Great advice. And for those who live outside of the Central Florida area, how would they find a daily money manager?

Heather Riner  36:08

Well, I definitely recommend going through the AADDM site, the American Association of daily money managers, there is an option on the website to type in your zip code. And you can select find a DMM, a Bailey money manager within 25 miles or 50 miles of my location. They are all over. We just had a national conference two weeks ago, and they are all over the nation.

Liz Craven  36:35

Well, I will include the link for that in the show notes, and also in the blog post for Episode 35 at Sage aging.us. So if you’re interested in learning more about daily money managers, and what they do, all of that will be there for you. Well, Heather, thank you so much for joining me today, I really do appreciate it. And I know that my audience appreciates it too.

Heather Riner  37:02

Thank you, I really appreciate the invitation to join you today. And I just want to say that I appreciate all that you do for the aging community and all the resources you have put out to the community, you’re doing a wonderful job.

Liz Craven  37:17

Oh, thank you, I appreciate that, that really makes my day for real. This is you know, all of the things I do. I think I get just as much payback as anybody else does. Because I lay down at night knowing that I made a difference. And that makes me feel great. So thank you for being a community partner in that. Definitely. And thank all of you for listening, you’re as big a part of the equation as anybody else You are the reason that every week I jump on the mic and do something that for a while was a little bit uncomfortable for me, but has gotten very comfortable and has become the highlight of my week. I enjoy my time with you so much. And I hope that you do too. And I hope this conversation has been helpful for you, and that it has given you some food for thought about some other things that you might put in place to ease your load just a little bit. Now I’ve mentioned before, in the last couple of episodes, if you’re a caregiver, I really want to hear from you because we are putting together some caregiver spotlights. Those of you who are listening have said you really want to hear what other caregivers are facing and how they’re navigating their journey. And so we want to hear from you. And if you’d like to be a part of that, you can just drop me a line at info at Sage aging.us. Otherwise, if you’re enjoying the sage aging podcast, I would love it. If you would subscribe, follow or leave us a review. You can do that at your favorite podcast app or you can do that on Facebook. More importantly, share the sage aging podcast with a friend. And if you want to catch up on back episodes, or see the blog post for Episode 35, head over to Sage aging.us. You’ll find that there and a lot more as well. Thanks for listening, everyone. We’ll talk real soon.